When a Music Festival Operator Sets Sights Overseas | An Yong Looks at the World

By Huang Zhuxi and Ren Qian

Edited by Yu Lili

As Anyong Waves continued its coverage of overseas markets, Li Hongjie, founder of the MTA Desert Festival, reached out to us. He wanted to share the story of how he's been leading Chinese indie musicians into the North American market.

Li Hongjie is a behind-the-scenes architect of China's music festival scene. He previously served as editor-in-chief of Popular Music, known as "China's first rock magazine," and of the Chinese edition of Rolling Stone. In 2009, he founded the Zhangbei Grassland Music Festival; in 2010, the Changyang Music Festival; and in 2016, the MTA Desert Festival.

Now he's a new player taking Chinese indie musicians on North American tours. In 2018 and 2019, he brought multiple Chinese artists to SXSW (South by Southwest) for "China Night" showcases. This year, under the newer IP "Friends from the East," he helped domestic bands like Miserable Faith and Fazi land slots at SXSW.

In late October, Omnipotent Youth Society appeared at Seattle's Moore Theatre — a 117-year-old venue where American legends like Nirvana once performed. The band went on to play eight more cities including San Francisco, New York, and Toronto, selling out all 3,000 tickets at peak capacity. Li Hongjie's team was behind that too.

Li's exploration comes amid broader shifts in China's music festival industry. There was the early explosion of band culture, festivals, and related industries; then the pandemic-induced contraction; and now, as the live market warms up, a new round of hyper-competition — festivals facing同质化 competition and audience fatigue. This is precisely why Chinese indie musicians have begun seeking alternative paths and testing waters abroad.

A few days ago, Li sat down with us to tell their North American story, carefully walking through the profit-and-loss math of that market. And in an era when AI virtual companions are all the rage, he emphasized that humans still have a real emotional need for face-to-face, eye-to-eye connection. That's the value of music festivals, and it's why he's still in the game — and going global.

"Waves Worldview" is a new column from Anyong. Over the past three years, we've gradually built out a body of globalization content, and we're now systematically rolling out a series of reports. Latin America and North America are our current research priorities.

The interview follows:

Standing on the Stage Where Nirvana Once Played

Anyong: Why go overseas at this particular moment? Is it because the domestic music festival market is struggling?

Li Hongjie: Actually, there are more festivals these past two years than before — it's a backlog effect. But in the second half of this year, you can clearly feel they're not selling, and many are getting canceled.

Anyong: Is it because it's too competitive?

Li Hongjie: The lineups of 300 festivals look identical to three. If you were a consumer, you wouldn't go to all 300 either, right? Product competition has intensified, and audience fatigue is growing. Entrepreneurs with foresight probably all want to look outward.

Anyong: Why North America for the first stop, rather than Japan, Korea, or Southeast Asian countries?

Li Hongjie: It's about our team's DNA — we're better equipped for North America. We first visited SXSW for research ten years ago. In 2018 and 2019, we did two consecutive years of China Night showcases there. And outside Asia, North America probably has the world's largest Asian diaspora — the U.S. alone had 24 million Asians in 2022.

Anyong: Is North America a more challenging battlefield for Chinese indie musicians?

Li Hongjie: Compared to Asian countries, North America is definitely more challenging, but the sense of accomplishment is greater if you pull it off. After all, when it comes to rock, we grew up listening to American and British musicians. Coming here to perform is itself a novel experience.

For most of these domestic musicians I bring, the venues are places where major bands and rock musicians have played — basically century-old institutions. The historical figures on the walls are the ones they grew up seeing in magazines and hearing on VCDs or CDs. The Moore Theatre in Seattle where Omnipotent Youth Society played — that's where Nirvana performed most often, along with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains. It has 117 years of history. And now you're standing on the same stage they stood on. That feeling is completely different.

For Chinese indie musicians, North America is still a new incremental market — not many mainland teams have tried it before. Many Japanese and Korean musicians also aim for North America at some point in their careers.

Anyong: How many tours have you done in North America so far?

Li Hongjie: About four or five. Last November we did a two-day "Friends from the East" festival with Miserable Faith, Omnipotent Youth Society, Wu Tiao Ren, Landlord's Cat, and others. Around the festival, we also did North American tours for Miserable Faith, Wu Tiao Ren, and Landlord's Cat. During this year's SXSW, we did Miserable Faith and Fazi. We just finished Omnipotent Youth Society's tour in November.

Anyong: What criteria are used to select bands like Omnipotent Youth Society for overseas tours?

Li Hongjie: Among current Chinese rock bands, Omnipotent Youth Society is definitely one of the best. Bands like them and Miserable Faith — their work is genuinely solid, full of vitality, and they've each been around for over 20 years. That's the foundation that allows them to perform in North America. If you're just hot domestically but can barely name three songs, it's tough.

Anyong: How was the live experience?

Li Hongjie: Many audience members were singing along in tears. For these compatriots far from home, having musicians from their homeland perform songs they know by heart — it's a kind of spiritual comfort. That alone makes it worthwhile.

Anyong: What factors are decisive for ticket sales?

Li Hongjie: My deep feeling is that whether a musician is trending on certain platforms recently has some bearing. But what's decisive for ticket sales is whether they have widely beloved songs — that's the base. Without that, you have to be cautious about doing tours.

Making Money Matters at Every Stage

Anyong: Are you making money in the North American market?

Li Hongjie: Basically breaking even.

Anyong: How do you do the math?

Li Hongjie: Ticket price multiplied by venue capacity, minus team costs — that gives you a theoretical break-even point and gross revenue. But this doesn't account for taxes, operating costs, etc. It's just a rough calculation of gross revenue versus artist costs to see if the gap is manageable. If there's room, you can probably do it. If it's just breaking even, better not. Because there are always unexpected costs in execution. One slip and you're in the red.

Anyong: What variables cause fluctuations?

Li Hongjie: For example, round-trip flights to North America run about 10,000 to nearly 20,000 RMB per person. Some bands minimize personnel to keep travel costs down. What you save becomes your profit. Of course every band's situation differs. Even with similar partnership structures, each project's break-even line and profit margin vary.

Anyong: So it's hard to make serious money.

Li Hongjie: Serious money probably isn't happening. For people who've been in the live industry long-term, the goal isn't windfall profits on individual projects — it's sustainability and stability. For bigger-name artists, demands are higher, whether on expenses or production, so costs rise. Breaking even or even taking a small loss counts as lucky. Honestly, only about 10% of shows truly sell out.

In this environment, you definitely have to tighten your belt, plan meticulously, and ensure resilience. Plus, you really have to do the math upfront — market acceptance, listener base, which cities are more friendly to this kind of music — all of that requires deep research beforehand.

Anyong: What's the time cost of preparing a tour?

Li Hongjie: From first conversation to execution, Omnipotent Youth Society's tour took a year. The "Friends from the East" festival also took a year to prepare.

Anyong: How big is your North American team? What's the major difference between doing tours overseas versus domestically?

Li Hongjie: The core team is about 10 people, working in shifts 24/7 bilingually. The main differences are in认知 habits and working methods. For example, in China we measure distance in kilometers; here it's miles — you have to convert every time. Working methods follow similar logic: the same tasks may have different forms of expression and terminology. You need to磨合, convert, communicate, and make sure both sides understand each other's needs.

Anyong: What are the main differences in working methods?

Li Hongjie: For example, when you get to a venue and it involves production setup, the venue's union requires you to use their designated people. We might finish something in an hour, but the union-designated workers can't complete it on your imagined timeline. They have all kinds of safety regulations — work a certain number of hours and they must rest; anything beyond 8 hours requires overtime pay, and it's expensive. Sometimes we ask, can we come early to avoid delays? They say sure, but early arrival still counts as overtime.

What can you do? You still have to do it. It's just that next time you encounter something similar, you know their working methods differ from ours, and you can improve on production and configuration. But these are all valuable experiences — consider it tuition.

Anyong: So at this stage, making money isn't the most important thing?

Li Hongjie: Making money matters at every stage. For anything to sustain, you have to consider profitability. If you keep ignoring costs and don't do the math, it won't last long.

Anyong: Compared to the domestic market, how much incremental space is there in overseas tours?

Li Hongjie: Actually the big logic is the same whether in China or the U.S. Revenue channels and cost structures are identical. The size of profit margins still depends on the team's ability to operate with precision.

Performing for Compatriots in North America Is Also Deeply Meaningful

Anyong: From what you've seen, how receptive are these bands in North America?

Li Hongjie: 90% are still overseas Chinese. But it varies by city. Austin has SXSW every year, so locals are interested in seeing non-English musicians perform. Other cities are still more welcoming to English- and Spanish-language artists.

Anyong: If the influence is still mainly within Chinese circles, does that shake your conviction in doing this?

Li Hongjie: Actually musicians don't纠结 about this. Making music isn't "manufacturing" a song — it's "creating" one. Do musicians think about who's going to listen before they create? No. They write from genuine feeling. Once born, can you control who wants to listen? No. Similarly, can you control who comes to your show? Also no. There's no need to纠结. People always say, what's the point of going to North America if you're still performing for our compatriots? I say this is deeply meaningful.

Anyong: Where does the meaning lie?

Li Hongjie: From my perspective, every song has its own story. Once it's born, its fate is no longer in your hands. When you perform live, how can you demand what kind of people attend? Why must it be foreigners listening to your music in America? I don't see the need. Anyone who pays for a ticket has already proven your music has value. That's enough. There's no need to filter who's buying, no point in fixating on that.

Anyong: Are others doing similar things?

Li Hongjie: In terms of systematic, IP-based operations, besides us, it's probably Modern Sky. Modern Sky is a benchmark in our industry and our role model. They previously held festivals in New York and Los Angeles but stopped after that.

Anyong: Why did they stop?

Li Hongjie: Probably strategic considerations. I see Lao Shen recently said they're restarting overseas efforts too. This is the natural law of market development. You probably have a feel for this across industries — these past two years, I think everyone has developed an instinct for going global. Beyond China's home market, everyone's expanding internationally. Huawei started going overseas so early, and for a long time overseas revenue exceeded domestic. If you view the entire world as your market, that's the ocean of stars.

Anyong: But Huawei is more tech and manufacturing going overseas.

Li Hongjie: The underlying logic is actually the same. Any company either sells products or sells services. Music is also a product for us; when users come, you give them an experience — that's also providing a service. So it's really the same.

Anyong: From another angle, Chinese bands going overseas has reached an appropriate inflection point.

Li Hongjie: This is timing — you shouldn't force it, let things flow naturally. Do it when you can, don't rush when you can't. Back in 2019, Sunset Rollercoaster was playing small venues — 200-capacity rooms, $20 tickets, touring round after round, before eventually getting to thousand-capacity venues. Ten years ago we couldn't have done what we're doing now. Chinese audiences weren't ready, American resources weren't connected, our capability radius wasn't prepared. Being able to do "Friends from the East" now is a natural progression. But it's still just the beginning — whether Zhangbei or MTA Desert Festival, we plan on at least a 10-year horizon.

Anyong: Does the current turbulent global situation give you pause about music going overseas?

Li Hongjie: We use music to transcend boundaries. Music has no borders. Whether Eastern or Western, everyone loves listening to John Lennon's "Imagine" — it says that regardless of our different beliefs and opinions, we can all love the same song.

Anyong: Do you worry about competitors joining the race for overseas markets?

Li Hongjie: We hope they come. Only when everyone arrives can we truly understand why Live Nation — the world's largest live music company, valued at $30 billion — emerged here. Everyone talks about AI virtual companions now, but why do so many people still pay to see live shows? Because face-to-face, eye-to-eye interaction is a刚需, a real human emotional need that transcends race.

Anyong Waves is recruiting fellow travelers to the regions we cover. If you're interested in globalization themes, we invite you to scan the code and participate in the Anyong "Waves Odyssey" survey. We look forward to pooling ideas and building an interactive, exploratory "global travel" community.

Image source: IC Photo

Layout: Liu Hongyu