On the "Ruins" of Double Reduction, Rebooting Life with AI | A Conversation with Serial Entrepreneur Liu Ye: From Zuoyebang to Talkit

This week's guest on Crossroads has ridden a career roller coaster — he's Ye Liu, former founder of Zuoyebang (Homework Box) and now founder of VisionFlow.

Liu once built Zuoyebang into an edtech unicorn serving hundreds of millions of teachers and students across 100,000 schools. Then the "double reduction" policy hit suddenly, devastating the business. But after this seismic shock, Liu decided to rebuild from the rubble, launching a new AI + education startup.

VisionFlow raised roughly $10 million in seed funding — the largest seed round in the AI language learning space — with backing from notable entrepreneur Xiang Li, Alibaba partner Ming Zeng, and Yuyan, among others.

Liu believes AI has finally cracked the spoken-language problem that has stumped language learning for decades — what was "impossible" for generations is now possible. Building on this, VisionFlow launched its first product, Talkit: an AI × 3D virtual world built entirely for speaking practice.

In this episode, we'll talk product, talk AI, and hear Liu share his remarkable journey from Zuoyebang to Talkit — his thinking on entrepreneurship, how he adjusted when everything suddenly collapsed, and how he regrouped and started over.

We all face "life restart" moments. We hope Liu's story brings you inspiration and courage.

🟢 03:11 Lightning round: Age, alma mater, MBTI and zodiac sign, one-line company pitch, funding status, revenue and profit, team size, pre-startup exploration

🟢 05:14 AI + Education

Why, with AI here, are we still learning English like it's the last century? "Duolingo is a company focused on the 'hand'; we're a company focused on the 'mouth.'" A language learning theory born in 1980 (TBLT) — why did it only truly find its spring with the arrival of large AI models?

🟢 09:12 Talkit: Building a Friendly Virtual World for Language Learning

Think moving to a real environment like the United States will make you fluent? No — that world isn't friendly to learners. To create the perfect learning environment, they built an entire in-house "Gen World Engine." While Roblox still relies on users to create worlds, they can have an intern generate 1,000 3D virtual humans in a month. How does AI both chat with you and function like a top-tier private tutor, precisely controlling the difficulty of what it teaches?

🟢 14:40 A Great Rival: Duolingo

A product many complain "doesn't teach you anything" — how did it become a company worth tens of billions? What is its real moat? "A business that solves 'rigid demand' isn't great; 'rigid demand' is an archaic, rotten concept from agrarian society." Duolingo's core product philosophy: "Ease first, effectiveness second." You'll never teach a student who doesn't show up. Most people use Duolingo like checking in at the gym — learning is just a pleasant "byproduct." Where did Duolingo's 850 million churned users go? They're all looking for a way to actually speak.

🟢 29:07 The Double Reduction Moment: From Industry Annihilation to Inner Liberation

A catastrophe that nearly zeroed out an entire industry — why, for those at the storm's center, did it feel like "relief"? When the double reduction policy dropped, Liu called his co-founder. Both of their reactions: "This is good." How to tell if your work has betrayed your original intention? Ask yourself: "If I had a child, would I let them use my product?" He once held nearly 100,000 Bitcoin, yet gave up the chance to become an exchange giant for an education mission he believed in. How to process the massive regret of a failed startup? There's only one answer: build a greater company.

🟢 36:41 Three Lost Years: A Top Founder's "Gap Period" Survival Rules

After his startup was interrupted, he didn't launch vengefully into a new one. Instead, he fell into a state of "desperately needing to be needed." A chain coffee project he'd researched for six months, with investors chasing to fund it — why did he personally kill it at the last minute? "Value isn't determined by features, but by uniqueness. Are you an arbitrageur or an entrepreneur?" Why is entrepreneurship anti-human? Because you're doing things that "if you don't do them, no one will" — things hard enough to matter.

🟢 52:09 12 "I am..." Sentences

I am a national runner-up in alpine skiing I am a national second-level swimmer I am a perennial member of Jishuitan Hospital's orthopedic trauma department I am a member of the Global Doctors Community ...the remaining 8 are even better, listen to the podcast

🟢 59:52 Keep Swimming Until the Water Turns Blue: Three Pieces of Advice for the New Generation of AI Entrepreneurs

Entrepreneurship mantra "the bitter sea is not bitter": when you can clearly see the blue ocean ahead, the bitter sea of the present ceases to be painful. Advice for AI founders: Beware "fake opportunity" anxiety. Real opportunities are actually rare — dare to take time finding them. Embrace solitude. Don't fear that you're the only one who sees something, because solitude often means scarcity and correctness. "Only by making mistakes do you get the chance to be alone with yourself" — and truly know what is right.

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🚦 Crossroads is Steve Jobs's metaphor for Apple — standing at the intersection of technology and liberal arts, where great products are born. AI is transforming every industry. We seek out, interview, and bring together the new generation of AI founders and active builders in the AI era. Together with them, we explore and embrace the new changes, the new possibilities.

👦🏻 Host Koji: I co-founded Jiepang / The Fair / Tangdao, and started AI Hacker House, a community space for the new generation of AI entrepreneurs. I believe technology, especially AI, is the greatest value-creation opportunity of our generation. Feel free to find me to chat, bounce ideas, and connect on what's next. Koji on Jike, Koji's website

👧🏻 Host Ronghui: I've worked at a dollar-denominated VC and spent five years as a Silicon Valley correspondent, tracking technology development and business stories. Feel free to find me to chat and exchange ideas. Ronghui on Jike

🎄 This podcast is supported by The Fair's Sound Forest Podcast Project.