How a Less Anxious CEO Is Made: A Conversation with Maozhu on Duozhuayu's Eight Years, Darkest Hours, and New Plans

A few days ago, someone in our listener group said that listening to Crossroads makes them anxious. Work is already exhausting, and they'd rather use their commute to unwind with music. To this friend and anyone who feels similarly: we completely understand, and in many ways, we're the same. Friends, peers, colleagues — most of us feel some anxiety about AI, this sense that we need to keep up. That's partly why Crossroads hopes to add more content this year around "making choices at life's crossroads." We want more people to see that living through this era means having many different ways of relating to information.

Today's guest, Mao Zhu, founder of Deja Vu, offers one such "way in" to AI that's distinctly her own. In this episode, we talk with her about how Deja Vu thinks about using AI, her personal experiments with it, and what she observed about how "elites" discuss AI during a recent leadership program at Harvard. But what we found most valuable was her sharing how, over eight years, she transformed from an inexperienced founder into someone who has weathered team turnover, the death of a loved one, and the pressures of running a company — emerging with a new capacity for acceptance. This is an entrepreneur's coming-of-age story, and also a reflection on one person's pursuit of happiness.

Mao Zhu said at the end of the podcast that she's a CEO who isn't particularly anxious about AI. Of course, this has something to do with the nature of Deja Vu's business. But more than that, it stems from the self-acceptance born of the rich experiences and perspectives she shared. We hope this episode brings her story and insights to more of you.

🟢 Part One: Mao Zhu's Journey, Deja Vu + AI = ?

01:28 "These eight years have been Deja Vu" — a secondhand marketplace spanning books, clothing, toys, outdoor gear, and furniture

03:03 How Deja Vu has changed: from online to more offline presence

04:14 Deja Vu + AI = ?

06:35 Users' book searches are fuzzy; human curation outperforms AI recommendations

09:44 For now, AI's value is in productivity — making copywriting and document work more enjoyable

10:25 Has AI affected sales of special categories in used books?

13:05 Academic and exceptionally well-made books: demand hasn't changed much, but supply has shrunk

16:40 Recently compiling a list of out-of-print books, planning to curate exhibitions for them

19:42 The curator's role is becoming more important

21:56 The biggest barrier to information is browsing inertia — it blinds people to a larger world

🟢 Part Two: The Deja Vu Startup Story, Choices, and the Success Triangle

23:27 What did Deja Vu get right back then?

25:56 Triangle one: employees — always telling the team she didn't want their memories of this chapter to be overtime and documents

27:03 Triangle two: users — were they truly being served well?

27:23 Triangle three: the business itself

29:11 "I'm genuinely interested in business. I've found that many founders actually aren't"

30:12 Analyzing the secondhand business

35:01 Advice for founders today: catch the tailwinds of technological transformation

37:49 Eight years in, any pressure to exit? Would she raise funding if starting over today?

40:53 Founders' beautiful visions vs. brutal reality — what comes first?

44:47 Business interests vs. bonds with colleagues — the contradictions and evolution of a founder

48:34 In East Asian culture, we're always positive, always upbeat, avoiding conflict, avoiding mess

52:38 Different stages of Deja Vu's growth and her own changes: "I used to want too much"

54:40 "My biggest problem was that I'd never failed at a startup before"

57:08 The first moment of "eating crow," the first time things felt this hard

1:00:21 Though the business was resilient, the lockdowns posed enormous challenges

1:04:26 During the pandemic: a partner's departure, operational pressures, the death of a family member — a cascade of blows

1:06:40 After traveling the world, accepting that she's an ordinary person

🟢 Part Three: "I think I can finally say I've become a mature entrepreneur — not fully mature, but at least not failing"

1:09:57 The price of maturity: losing confidence

1:13:36 Grateful for all of it. If you want to accomplish something, you need to outgrow naivety and understand the real world

1:15:37 She prefers who she is now — more grounded inside

1:17:30 As self-aware beings, we need to return to our own agency: what is my happiness?

1:18:09 Realizing how much she still doesn't know, how much she still wants to do

1:20:33 Accepting reality; reading history helps

1:23:13 A TV recommendation: Towards the Republic

1:24:48 In the AI era, as a CEO, she's not very anxious — hot topics are endless; better to return to what she's good at

1:27:40 With AI's help, she can now make her own multimedia magazine

1:29:52 At Harvard's leadership program, observing what elites around the world care about and how they talk about AI

1:35:35 Advice for reducing fear: calculate your baseline cost of living, return to probabilistic thinking — you're already a winner in the competition

1:37:26 Overcoming fear, finding the motivation of love

PS: Mao Zhu kindly shares books she recently scavenged in the United States

Mao Zhu, Ronghui, and Koji recorded this episode in the attic of Mao Zhu's home:

Subscribe to the Crossroads podcast 🚦 We track how the new wave of AI technology is reshaping industries and creating entrepreneurial opportunities. "Crossroads" was Steve Jobs's metaphor for Apple — standing at the intersection of technology and liberal arts, where great products are born. AI is transforming every sector. We seek out, interview, and bring together "active participants" of the AI era to explore and embrace the changes and new possibilities, together.

👦🏻 Host Koji: Co-founder of The Fair and Tangdao. He believes technology, especially AI, will fundamentally transform society and empower humanity. Feel free to reach out to chat, exchange ideas, and connect on what's next. Koji's Jike, Koji's website

👧🏻 Host Ronghui: Works at a tech VC; former Silicon Valley correspondent for Yicai Weekly. Ronghui's Jike

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